Human Forms for Dragons

I have no issues with this, I actually prefer it!

To be quite frank, I think you're being a bit strict about this. But it is your RP, and your world.

And, due to your insistence on this issue, I've kinda come up with a "In character" reason for this, for the sake of other dragons who, in the past, may have had this ability (for example, with Akayana's characters).

If you're bringing an old character, or a pre-existing character into this storyline, then the laws governing magic in this realm are completely different from those where you come from. The frequency of magic is different, as are the interactions within your innate magic and the world around you. The only way to perform this change would be to alter your own energy to exist harmoniously with that of the energy around you. Then you have to use that energy for the shifting. And with that, if you become imbalanced in any way, emotionally, spiritually or physically, the attuning separates and you return to your natural form. I can see this being extremely painful-- kinda like your body being torn and remade in a few seconds.

I think that, in spite of our character's abilities, we should have to reinvent them here. By showing a steady growth of ability and eventual learning and mastery over those abilities, it will prove to everyone how dedicated our characters are to wielding those abilities, which will make them cannon. It will keep people from just up and having some special, secret ability that is the absolute answer for every storyline that might come up.

I see no problem with how you have this Ahadi. I personally (no offence to other) wish not to see a dragon able to take human form. So I think this is actually good enough.

I'm fine with what you have set Ahadi.

I don't mind characters having this ability so long as it makes sense to their storyline, and not just to have it for the sake of a cool effect. I would also expect the ability to be used sparingly, and costly, again more to prevent overuse.

Agreed with the others. After all we're suppose to be rping as Dragons, not humans. :3.

I agree with this idea completely.

As neat as it'd be to have a human form I feel it would unbalance the RP. Most people would end up favoring the human side, using the dragon as the secondary as people most often lean towards that which they can relate to best. And even if only a few show their favoritism dragon form to human form interactions aren't very likely, so people will conform to whichever half gives in first, as humans give a "calm" effect in comparison toning it down to a human will be the more likely outcome to any non-aggressive situation.

I really just feel that the open access to human forms will take away the "dragon" part of "dragon RP".

Well if anyone has read the 1x1 Rp between Rai and I, you can probably guess that I disagree. My head world aside, there are tons upon tons of mythology that back up the idea of Dragons being able to shape shift.

It occurs in many cultures, though most found in the Asian mythologies. They believed in dragons that were gods/demi gods and could basically use magic to whatever extent they wanted too. (Obviously in our little Rp that would be ridiculous, but it works as an example.)  It can also be found in native Hawaiian mythologies, as well as others.

This ability is common in novels and games. The most notable being the DnD franchise and following that the Dragon lance novels. There are shape shifting dragons in the Earthsea novels too.

Frankly I don't see the harm in giving the dragons abilities that would naturally come with harnessing  magic. They exist BECAUSE of magic. I am a biology nerd, and as such I try to throw as many realistic traits as I can into my dragons. However, under the laws of biology as we currently understand them, Dragons cannot be. But magic makes them so. Even if you have a dragon character that cannot use "spells". Magic is what enables them to fly, there just isn't any other way to explain it. Airsacs, special body gasses, ultra-light bodies and massive wings just don't cut it.

So magic is used by them, all of them. Why limit it on something so simple? By definition magic means to summon or control the supernatural through spells or similar means.

Supernatural is :  relating to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

I'd like to draw attention to Unexplainable. Dragons ignoring the laws of biology and physics to take a human shape falls smack dab in the middle of unexplainable to me. So the argument of "that's biologically / physically impossible" goes out the window.

I can understand limiting magic / abilities as far as preventing over-powered characters that kill the life of an RP. But I cannot fathom for the life of me how taking the shape of a weaker creature could possibly be considered "OP".

For one, a dragon taking the form of a human is not gaining anything. Humans are weaker, they cannot fly, they cannot run faster, they do not possess greater magical abilities. Humans are just flat out easier to fill than dragons are. The main hold they have over dragons is that Humans are far more willing to work with one another than your stereotypical dragon. The only thing I can see a dragon gaining by taking this shape is to blend in among humans. So I guess they could be a spy. However this is easily fixed, it is as simple as demanding that a dragon turned human must keep at least one dragon trait. (Example : My novel dragons have Black Sclera when taking a human form.) While the common folk might not recognize what they are, they sure aren't going to be every trusting of a man walking around with a lizard tail or horns on his head. And anyone that is out looking for dragons should know how to recognize one.

For two....well I can't think of a for two at the moment, but I'll add it later if anyone wants to continue the debate about it.

And to respond to Virus :

Virus wrote:As neat as it'd be to have a human form I feel it would unbalance the RP. Most people would end up favoring the human side, using the dragon as the secondary as people most often lean towards that which they can relate to best. And even if only a few show their favoritism dragon form to human form interactions aren't very likely, so people will conform to whichever half gives in first, as humans give a "calm" effect in comparison toning it down to a human will be the more likely outcome to any non-aggressive situation.

People are already going to try and throw in relateable aspects to their dragons. In all my years of reading I rarely find a novel with a fantasy race that does not act like humans. We ARE humans. It is impossible for us to completely understand what it would be to be another creature. Everything we write is going to be influenced by our own lives.  On the other side of your argument, I don't think everyone would just become human for every non-violent interaction. Simply because in this world of Arauwiel, humans and dragons hate one another. (At least for right now.) If you took a human form among these dragons, they'd very likely not take it as a sign of submission, but as an insult and thusly try to eat you. Even if two dragons who enjoyed taking human form met one another. In this world it would still be very dangerous for either of them to take human shape around one another.

In my novel, the dragon characters have a very interesting dynamic when taking human form. Very few of them do it, as most of them hate humans entirely and see them as pests. Those that do take human form do so because they see the destruction both sides are causing, and are attempting to make peace. In their natural states they'd never get the chance to befriend anyone, so their human forms are less menacing to the humans that hate them.  However, by taking human form, these dragons alienate themselves from their brethren, and if they are not strong enough to defend themselves. They can and will be killed if they return to the dragon colonies.

Anyway, to end my massive post here. If Human forms are verboten, I can live with it. But I won't say I like it.

I think you may be reading a bit much into this Akayana. Not to rock the boat by responding just to you as to look like I am singling you out[am not], but I do have to make a comment on what you've written. Ahadi isn't completely banning the entire thought of dragons being able to take on human forms, much rather he would like to see it kept to something that is rare - something that is worked towards to be able to shift into a human form, and the thought there is some limits to magic as powerful as that. This certainly, to me anyways, is not a form of verboten as it is not forbidden. It is just limited - which you would have the chance to work towards to make it a part of your character.

Sure, humans are considered less powerful than dragons, but in the world of Arauwiel, it is a powerful spell that would need a dragon strong in the way of spells to cast - which in turns makes the premise "OP". The fact that a powerful spell could be so easily cast by someone begets the thought that the dragon would be OP as what other powerful spells could the dragon theoretically cast without much character development to work towards being able to use such power?

Oh I don't feel called out at all! XD Please don't worry about debating it with me, it is hard to offend me. I do not mind differing opinions, I just come off kinda strong when debating mine.

I do realize that banning it entirely is not Di's intention, however the general feeling at the moment is one of "do not include at all" vs "limit heavily". So to save my breath I tried to get everything out all at once. I apologize to everyone if I came off as attacking!

I can see your point about it requiring a strong spell to cast. However I still believe dragons inherently are one of the most magical creatures in existence.  Any type of magic should be easily "relatively" learned by them. What human mages might learn in 20 years a dragon should technically master in 1. Not to mention most of our dragon characters are older, or at least are not considered younger than adolescent. Dragons at this level would be very powerful simply because of their age and their experience gained, if nothing else. These dragons are already established characters when entering this realm. And for mine personally, having a human form is one of their inherit abilities. (So my rant above really stems from that angle.) Just like breathing fire or flying.

If we wanted to limit spells or magic of this kind, I do hope we limit others as well to make it fair. If they cannot transform then they would not be able to create a fire tornado using their breath and the wind of their wings.  

Trying to limit such things really goes above the scope of my experience, so I do hope others like yourself Kahlan and Di will be able to offer more insight towards it. The only way I can see it really leveling the playing field is if everyone, human, dragon, fairy, centaur, and whatever else, gets nerfed the moment they step foot on Arauwiel.  All magical abilities resetting to zilch, with physical abilities taking a temporary reset. (After all, they should be extremely weak from their journey right?) And even then I'm not going to like it a whole lot, but I am willing to accept it as a necessary ebil.

**** I forgot to add --

I would also like to know more about how these kinds of abilities would be "earned" if we followed that route. Would we be required to write a set amount (say like 5 paragraphs) of the character learning to do it? Or would we have to have a number of attempts of them using it before they finally got it right? Or would it be as simple as rolling a virtual D20 and hitting above a predetermined number? Would these be a part of the main Rp or would they be considered side Rp's and included in the In-Character writings or Side Quests forums?